Transcript: Trump’s Angry New Tirade over Shutdown Should Wake Up Dems

So in a way, politically speaking, it’s good that Democrats, quote unquote, lost this issue. In losing, they have said, and therefore we will relinquish, essentially, future opportunities to use leverage, use deadlines to bend Trump to our will. And that is a posture of weakness that I think, you know, voters paying minimal attention to this will pick up upon.

Sargent: Yes, absolutely. And I think, by the way, there’s almost like a tendency to regard the mission of bringing Trump’s approval rating down as something political and not substantive. But when you’re in a context like this, where Donald Trump is engaged in rampant lawlessness and lawbreaking, consolidating authoritarian power on many fronts, bringing down his approval rating is pretty important. It actually, you know, could impact over time how far he gets in consolidating autocratic power, don’t you think?

Beutler: I think it’s the Democrats’ highest calling in office right now is to make Donald Trump less popular through whatever means, right? Supporting the No Kings rallies is one way, dividing his loyalists in Congress over issues is another way. Standing up to him in the context of a government shutdown fight and making him seem weaker than he is is another way, emphasizing his corruption scandals is another way.